The Peace Coalition goes to Ottawa - Part 1

00:01.32
Henry
Hey everyone it's Henry Mike and Jeff of the decentralists and as you might expect, we're going to be speaking with Mike but he's not in Ukraine right now. He's back in Canada he's back in Vancouver but it was an interesting route.

00:15.30
Mike
Where's Waldo.

00:20.35
Henry
That he took to get here mike you ah you made a bit of a pit stop in the nation's capital of Ottawa um seems you were summoned there because they kind of like what you're up to regarding the desentalists and the peace coalition Mike take it away.

00:21.10
Mike
Oh well Henry I mean first it's it's by the you know this is ah this is a group effort. So ah, it was a mass summoning not just an individual summoning. It was a mass summoning event. Um, no, you know, ah guys it's been. It's been a crazy year.

00:56.81
Mike
Right? I mean you think about it we we you know we had covered where we were all the world was all locked down and isolated and all this other kind of stuff and covered was not just here. It was everywhere right? So it was happening in Ukraine you know.

01:10.59
Henry
Ah.

01:11.32
Mike
The hotel that I'm staying at best hotel in the world burstsa almost shut down because for 2 years you couldn't nobody was staying. There was nothing. You could do you know and then right after when all of us are starting to come out of our in the in. Let's say in Canada and stuff we're starting to come out of the covered thing.

01:17.70
Henry
Of course.

01:29.99
Mike
A war starts in Ukraine right? And so you know this has been you know and and and I walk right into the middle of this thing in August of last year and spend nine months and it was awesome and you know? Yeah yeah.

01:32.25
Henry
Ah, ah.

01:39.35
Henry
Well yeah, and and before you go on just just set the scene from my perspective and everybody else's perspective you after the war started decide to go to Ukraine because you had a decentralized secure communications app that you felt could help ukrainians.

01:47.10
Mike
No, no, no, it's you're you're right? Henry and I mean but it's not the communications part right? I mean we had. We've been. You know we've been working on on. Um you know, not just kind of connecting people securely and and privately right through the many one app which is what we were doing.

01:58.69
Henry
And those they're displaced and then from then on what has transpired is incredible. Sorry go ahead.

02:08.20
Henry
Um, I know.

02:21.25
Mike
Um, but the other part was the identity piece. Okay, so there was always 2 fundamental components to what we were trying to do right? 1 of them was allow people to self attest to their own identity right? This analogy of you know a wallet should just be a wallet like you used to buy at the bay with the fake credit cards in it. You know.

02:24.34
Henry
Yep.

02:39.56
Henry
Um, ah.

02:40.71
Mike
And and the idea is you can put whatever you want in that wallet to attest to who you are and and the other part was you know the connection and the communications. Well when the war started in Ukraine and you had this mass kind of you know, let's say forcible eviction. Is it put up to put it politely of 14000000 people in three months

02:42.36
Mike
Um, so you have communities families. You know everything that are blown up then people are all over the place right? The sum of most lot of them are run on the country like 7000000 people ran out of the country 7000000 people were displaced within the country.

02:58.85
Henry
Ah.

03:12.84
Mike
And a lot of them didn't have their documents and so the idea was to you know take the identity piece of the software and develop it first. You know what I mean prioritize the development of the identity piece first because there was an urgent need for it in Ukraine and you know.

03:20.63
Henry
Right.

03:29.32
Henry
They all became refugees.

03:32.64
Mike
Well exactly and and when basically in anybody there's 80000000 people on this planet that are refugees right now. It's it's ah it's a it's a shame. Okay, but like a horrible shame. we should all be you know um we should all be sad but you know it turned over to over 100000000 with this war and so the idea is people are are.

03:35.97
Henry
Here.

03:52.80
Mike
They're They're not in their homes. They're not with their families. They've they've suffered you know war crimes. There's just you name it and they can't prove who they are or they don't have all the documents they need to fit into the government program for restitution right.

03:51.81
Mike
And so it was this piece that led us there and and and you know this this kind of you know, quixotic quest to to work with the government. Well this ends up over the next kind of nine months morphing into this crazy project where um, you know now it's not just.

04:06.00
Henry
Right.

04:29.18
Mike
You know, kind of collecting claim data. It's processing the claim data. It's assigning. Um, ah you know, kind of compensation. It's even going to the point of you know, kind of repairing and rebuilding you know homes and schools and things like this in villages. But then there's also the point.

04:29.93
Mike
At the front end. How do you pay for it so we kind of branched this project off a while ago and we talked I think a little bit about you know, um, some of the stuff that's happened but you know basically we were asked in July of last year to start ah to to.

04:48.30
Henry
Right.

05:01.94
Mike
To start working on this idea of how would you get money from seized or sanctioned Russian assets of the you know of the federate right? Yeah yes, yes, yes.

05:07.85
Geoff
And who was who was asking you to do that Mike when you say we were asked to do this and and your teen was asked to do it who who was asking to do that.

05:17.91
Mike
Well Okay, so there is a Canadian senator. Her name is ratna omadar. Okay, so senator omadarr is just an incredible, an incredible kind of Humanitarian and a very active.

05:13.22
Mike
Um, in things like ah immigration refugee women's rights. You know all of these types of things because she herself was a refugee from from the when you know and when the ayatollah took over Iran and she spent time in a refugee camp herself in turkey.

05:37.50
Henry
Yes, absolutely.

05:45.41
Henry
Um, yeah.

05:49.55
Mike
Right.

05:49.86
Geoff
And it would it would probably be worth chiming in for just a second to explain that the canadian senate um is the second chamber much like senates all around the world. Um, and and they do have constitutional power to you know they are required to. To pass the legislation before it's given royal assent. Um, but they tend to be ah you know, less partisan than you might see with the senate in the United States um and they tend to be much more. You know if you need a committee if you need something.

06:13.44
Henry
Right.

06:23.94
Geoff
Researched if you need you know good works like this done. It's often. Um, the Canadian senators which are appointed. They're not elected unlike the Us they're appointed um and they represent regionally so they come from each province and territory across the country. Ah, in in a proportional way. Um, not completely proportional, but but pretty proportional. So Unlike the members of parliament who are who in some cases can be. You know, very political, very polarized and are doing.

06:53.53
Mike
Um, um, yes, totally and and and you know this it's it's true and and 1 of the things that's kind of different a little bit about the senate is also that they are.

06:59.55
Geoff
Day-to-day governing or or not governing as the case may be um, the you know the senators tend to be able to look more more big picture. So I don't know if you want to add anything there Mike.

07:08.11
Henry
Right.

07:12.93
Geoff
That that's it for our international listeners when you when you talk about a Canadian senator. It's probably helpful to provide that context.

07:27.98
Mike
Now appointed as independents. So so the idea was this is one of the senate reforms they had right? It used to be that every time every time you know that the the government changed from say liberal to conservative. They didn'tpoint another 20 senators and you end up in this thing like the house of lords in the UK which is like 1500 people right.

07:30.20
Mike
Whereas now it's it's you you? It's not a lifetime appointment when you hit 75 you're done. You're retired right? and um, they're independent and so the idea is is exactly right now there are you know senators that affiliate themselves right with different political parties and they can do that.

07:34.87
Henry
That's right.

07:47.35
Henry
Ah.

07:57.29
Henry
Good.

08:07.10
Mike
But the whole idea is they're all independently appointed So there's no political, whatever and so so the idea is is that senator omidvar and and one of the things that the senate is able to do because of this independence is they can actually suggest legislation.

08:11.14
Henry
Yeah.

08:24.34
Mike
Right? or amendments and the house of lords can do that too. So the idea is parliament does all the you know the kind of debating and the law writing and the lawmaking and then they pass it to the senate where they read it over in their committees like a kind of a shadow of the of the parliament. And if they see things that they think should be changed or rethought or re researched or whatever they send it back. But what they can also do is they can actually propose original legislation and a men totally and so backing so basically a couple of years ago there was this group.

08:40.12
Mike
Um, it's called the world ah migration and refugee council. Ok and it's kind of a think tank. Um, that's led by 2 former um canadian humanitarian lawyers and attorneys general Allen Rock and Lloyd Axworthy okay

08:47.72
Henry
Um, and new initiative.

09:16.12
Mike
And they so they started working on this concept of um how can you go beyond freezing assets. Okay, so the idea is is the way the world order or at least the western order or whatever you want to call it. That's being evidenced in Ukraine right now. Okay. Is that if you are on the wrong side of international law if you're committing you know human rights abuses or environmental terrorism or you know whatever the bad thing is you can get sanctioned by the un and by individual countries right? and they can sanction the state. And they can sanction the supporters of the state. So the private individuals who have the yachts and the Picassos and the gold bricks right? And the idea is is that is done and so they so now they identify people right? So the first thing is is they go. You're violating.

09:53.99
Mike
Then they identify specific individuals in countries and then they freeze their stuff. Okay, so this is done under. What's called the magnitsky act out of the United States which is a law that was passed by a a crusader by the name of Bill Browder and it was his attorney. Um.

09:56.11
Henry
Who.

10:13.51
Mike
Whose last name was Magnitsky who was murdered in jail in Moscow ah because he was defending Bill Browder against ah you know, kind of some crazy intrigue in Russia he was exposing the oligarchs he was exposing all the oligarchs and basically the raping and pillaging of the country.

10:17.33
Henry
For her. Yes.

10:32.13
Mike
And they didn't take to that too kindly and in fact to this day Bill Browder lives basically in so in hiding. Um and is allegedly ah before the allegedly the number one target of the fsb the russian secret service. Okay because he knows all this stuff.

10:39.71
Henry
Yeah, he was basically supporting human rights. Um, right? so.

11:02.71
Henry
Yeah, sisters.

11:08.12
Mike
And so the idea is is that you you basically can freeze it. So that means you know if it's a yacht you can take it and put it in a dry dock or something if it's a house you can lock it up if it's an investment account. You can seize it and you know basically just basically freeze it. So what happens is is you don't allow anybody to have access to it.

11:09.79
Mike
But nothing happens to it. It just sits there. Okay and that's the punishment. Um along with travel restrictions and so this is what they've done kind of big time right? And and Canada stepped up early in the kind of this war this next like latest version of the war shall we say.

11:32.99
Henry
Sure.

11:46.26
Mike
And started to take it even so further than freezing assets and limiting travel. They cut the Russian state off of the swift financial system for example. Okay, so this was an economic isolation measure that was meant to kind of just make it harder for.

11:53.85
Henry
Who who.

12:04.95
Mike
For Russia to trade and make money and move things back and forth right? That was at the behest shall we say of Krista Freeland who's our deputy prime minister finance minister and also happens to be a Ukrainian Heritage canadian right and so so you've got this mood this this mood now that.

12:16.00
Henry
Correct.

12:23.78
Mike
You know I think everybody's so horrified that the russians are just doing their standard carpet bombing of civilians thing right? that they're just like that's it we got to take these sanctions further so Senator Omad Var in June of last year finally gets passed after 2 years of work with this with the Wr and WMRC guys with Lloyd axworthy and Alan Rock she puts forward an amendment called special economic measures act. Okay, and what this allows.

12:35.80
Mike
Canada to do is it provides a legislative vehicle for Canada to take any um sanctioned frozen assets of any kind of you know bad place right? So in this case, let's use the let's use the russian federation and Ukraine.

12:55.70
Mike
Um, but it also applies to say the revolutionary guard in Iran right? who are committing crimes in their home countries or against other countries in the case of Russia against Ukraine.

13:15.83
Henry
Oh good.

13:25.69
Mike
And they've been sanctioned and they've been blocked and they've been all this and now they can go into the bank and take the gold bars go into the mansions and sell them Canada can take any asset that they find that belongs to anybody or any organization on this list and they can.

13:32.28
Henry
Right.

13:42.28
Mike
Take it and now liquidate it and provide the cash to ukraine so we have the ability to do this.

13:46.85
Henry
And Canada was the first to do this.

13:47.40
Geoff
And this happened and this this happened last week here in Toronto for the past year or over a year since the war began. There's been a huge anatov cargo plane sitting on the runway or sitting parked at at Pearson.

13:59.91
Henry
Right.

14:04.17
Geoff
Ah, because it arrived and then it couldn't depart because of um flight restrictions and it's worth about eighty million bucks um ironically it's a ukrainian built plane but owned by owned by russians and Canada basically just said yeah we're seizing this and they're going to. Um.

14:14.99
Henry
Yeah.

14:23.73
Geoff
And they're going to either sell it and give them money to ukraine or they may just give the whole plane to Ukraine and it's this you know it's one of those huge you know ukrainian cargo planes that were not as big as the one that unfortunately the you know the russians blew up at the start of the war. But but.

14:30.19
Henry
Yeah.

14:35.74
Mike
And correct.

14:41.40
Geoff
You know this remarkable plane worth Tens of millions of dollars. Um, that candidates just said no, we'll have that and what's that.

14:48.16
Mike
Yep, that's exactly it. Yes, that's the 1 24 so it's its name is ruslan. Yeah, the one that was the one that with the big one. The mother that was destroyed was Maria.

14:44.41
Mike
At the at the ah at the airport just north of of ke and it was and it it's amazing. You know it's funny. You went in this segway here. Jeff this is amazing I've been having conversations over last couple days with a bunch of my ukrainian friends and it's amazing how they are gobsmacked.

14:48.64
Henry
Um, is that the edit of one 24 it's huge oh really

14:59.51
Henry
All right.

15:03.95
Mike
By this ruslan thing be the fact that canada that that Justin Trudeau and and Christian Freeland went to went surprise visit right? Went to keev this last week weekend or less last week announced a bunch of new aid. Um.

15:05.21
Henry
Yeah.

15:21.35
Mike
And announced that they that they'd seized the plane and were giving it to Ukraine. Okay, because there's a special place this plane the Maria held a special place in ukrainians' um, psyche it's weird.

15:22.25
Henry
You mean the fact that we seized it.

15:32.34
Henry
Yeah.

15:42.30
Henry
Love it.

15:55.90
Mike
I mean because it's Antonov which is which is one of the original airplane companies in the world right? and it's Ukrainian and and it was they were always used for good right.

16:00.56
Henry
Yep.

16:08.25
Henry
Um, yes.

16:10.80
Mike
And it's this thing that they're especially proud of and so they're very heartbroken that Maria will not be able to be used to deliver aid or coronavirus supplies or whatever which is what it used to do firefighters for Forest fires like the ones that are raging around Canada.

16:17.54
Henry
Yeah. Yeah, Oh yeah.

16:27.53
Mike
They had a real pride in the fact that they had the biggest plane in the world and it was always used for good purposes. So it was Ukraine helping the world. That's just it's it's an unbelievable kind of just thing and anyway I'm sets an aside but you know this is what what Jeff's getting into is this is kind of.

16:34.72
Henry
Yeah.

16:45.94
Mike
What started to happen and brought me to Ottawa in this kind of rapid fashion over the last kind of 6 months is we started in this. We started with this project to work with senator omavar to figure out. How do you kind of actually execute on this sanction. The seizure thing.

16:47.51
Mike
Because just because you can do it right? Um, just because you can do it doesn't mean that you can't ah that you can that it's easy to do or or that there's not a like a legal blocking to it or something right? So the idea is is is the the Canadians have the legislation.

16:51.11
Henry
Right.

17:06.64
Henry
Right.

17:25.90
Mike
Now the Canadians need to execute and actually see something because the rest of the world is watching right? The Americans the brits the Swiss the belgians.

17:33.24
Henry
Aha.

17:40.82
Henry
Um, oh yeah.

17:41.50
Mike
And the eu that I know of that I personally know of are waiting for Canada to actually seize an asset and repurpose it for Ukraine so that they can see what happens totally way more.

17:53.51
Henry
And they want to do the same because they have far more Russian assets on their territories than we do? yeah.

18:00.49
Mike
They way more like Ruslan. This aircraft is a symbolic thing. Okay, it's not it practically. It's not going to help anything but you know it's a symbolic gesture but when it comes? Yeah yeah, yes, yes, yes.

18:08.68
Geoff
But Mike what do you mean? see what happens you mean see about court challenges or see about ok.

18:18.66
Mike
So basically the idea is is is see something see what happens in terms of court challenges if Canada wins for example, so so so the first seizure that canada made was not that the antonov about two and a half months ago Canada seized.

18:16.66
Mike
A twenty six point five million dollars in an investment account that was under the name or that was that they tied to Roman Abramovvich who is one of the sanctioned oligarchs also former owner of the Chelsea Football Club in London okay, and and the um.

18:49.99
Henry
Writes who.

18:54.14
Mike
Um, you know and the what you would call it the ipso steel mill and Raina Saskatchewan now um that's right? So the idea is is that is that basically you got to move the money and you got to get it into the country. You've got to kind of um and and you've got to kind of execute on this plan. Okay.

18:58.16
Henry
Oh that's right.

19:13.55
Mike
So then we've got this and then as part of this this discussion with the senator. She introduces us to another ah ah parliamentarian on on on Parliament Hill ah is an he's an mp from whitby ontarios name's Ryan Turnbull and Ryan runs the social innovation and finance caucus. So basic.

19:29.67
Henry
Who.

19:32.23
Mike
He's a social entrepreneur. He gets elected and they give him this portfolio where he basically manages this group of mps cross party can be senators can be you know and they're all invited if they're interested in social finance this category called ESG environmental sustainability and governance. Ok.

19:34.70
Mike
And and so we start talking to him about this about this. Ah what? what we're doing on the practical side of our project because there's lots of research stuff like working with the senator and providing guidance and bringing people together. But we've also got this project where we are practically.

20:08.73
Mike
Going to put all of this theory into practice by rebuilding 2 villages in Ukraine right? So what we want to do is bring the money in right prove this prove out how we think we can move the.

20:03.98
Mike
Money from the senator right? That's seized in Canada into the Ukraine to use it to pay claims to collect the data that that that that to build the homes right and provide a template and so this project we present to um MPTurnbull and he says wow this is incredible and it's just the right time.

20:13.87
Henry
Ah, yeah.

20:21.54
Mike
And so this now starts this process. We we talking about kind of um, you know how do you fund the entire rebuilding process where all the gotchas and it and it and it just spirals into this huge project that has to do with with um.

20:55.98
Mike
How do you fund? Ultimately, how do you fund the rebuilding of Ukraine. How do you do it.

20:58.16
Henry
Okay, hold on Mike so so what? what you just said essentially was with the relatively small amount that has been seized the $26000000 for roovvich you you have. We have the the peace coalition a proposal to take that money and rebuild.

21:06.38
Mike
Yes.

21:08.37
Mike
Right? Yes, this is it. This is the plan right to put to give it to give a you know the peace coalition basically is it just a group of people like us right? The like ah the pure social foundation right? The software guys.

21:17.58
Henry
2 pilot towns or test towns in in in in Ukraine as a um as a test run for a much much much larger rebuilding ah project. Okay.

21:37.80
Henry
Right? there.

21:40.31
Mike
And humanitarians and researchers like John onra and Jeffrey Goodell who we've both had on the podcast before right? All of these types of people to to work on different aspects of what is necessary right? because it's not just go in and put up a roof and rebuild somebody's fence. You know what? I mean.

21:39.78
Mike
I Mean they're the guys. The farmers land is mined okay and he's got no tractors anymore because the Russians blew them up or burnt them up right? So it's it's all of this stuff and so you know we we basically? um.

21:44.80
Henry
Who.

21:53.60
Henry
Yeah, right? yeah.

21:55.11
Mike
You know we just happen to have this project to do this and what this needs is funding and so if what you want to do is practically fund. Um, if you want to practically fund.

22:03.39
Henry
Right.

22:10.22
Mike
Ah, or or practically take money that you seize from russian assets right? It's supposed to be taken that legislation from the senator says you take it you you seize it you liquidate it somehow or you somehow turn it into cash and then that cash is given back to Ukraine to rebuild a house or a town or many towns.

22:16.71
Henry
Yeah, for sure.

22:47.29
Mike
Depending on how much it is and the idea then is is that is how you prove out how the rest of the country could be funded because all of these other nations. Besides Canada who are waiting for Canada to pull the trigger have way more money at a worth of russian assets. You know what? I'm saying.

22:48.61
Mike
So 26000000 is 2 villages. You know the americans have eighty or ninety billion in central bank reserves. You know that's that's like that's and um, a massive amount of rebuilding but it's just sitting there so we have a couple meetings.

23:02.88
Henry
Yes.

23:03.20
Mike
Um, you know, kind of virtual Zoom meetings. You know I'm in Kiev and we got people in London we got all these people a bunch of people in Canada and we're talking all this this process through and all the legal and financial gotcha and all this other kind of stuff and then about about six weeks ago it starts to heat up.

23:12.60
Henry
Um, right.

23:21.97
Mike
And there's more interest in um, you know, kind of trying to provoke to promote a a ah canadian led next step in the sanctions and and that Canada needs to execute on this asset seizure. Okay. So they've got abramovvich's money. They've now got the plane. Um now they need to basically take that something from that and give it back to Ukraine in a material way that allows it to rebuild and it starts to heat up right before g 7 and so um, you know we've been working on this now for.

23:50.95
Henry
Um.

23:56.52
Henry
Wreck.

24:00.51
Mike
You know with the senator for a year almost with Ryan and the other and the rest of the of the group probably for six months and now it's a priority to go and um, you know basically ah, start to make it real right.

24:09.38
Henry
Her.

24:16.23
Mike
So we go to so we you know we get asked to go to Ottawa for ah for a couple of days and um, you know I had to come home anyway, at some point god forbid I've only been there nine and a half months um you know, supposed to be two weeks

24:47.78
Mike
And and we got asked to go to Ottawa to you know, answer some questions to talk further and to do some you know to have some real time discussions about you know how do we get the money into the country and and how do we pay? We finance the rebuilding of Ukraine crazy stuff.

25:00.41
Henry
Yeah, amazing.

25:02.92
Geoff
And obviously Ukraine looms large in everything now and you know Russia is going to have to pay and make the russian enablers pay. But I assume this you know this legislation and proposal would be generic enough that it could apply. You know to Syria or to sort of anywhere where these know where these fat cats are you know belarusians or anybody of these fat cats that are you know that are hiding their money around the world and that they have to you know, kind of go home with their tail between their legs.

25:22.29
Mike
Yes.

25:26.25
Henry
The who.

25:29.20
Mike
Correct. Correct.

25:40.75
Mike
This is the case. This is the case right? So anybody basically the ideas are putting anybody anybody who could at some point that you could envision at some point getting a sanction an international sanction slapped on them for what they did right? That's that's the target.

25:41.84
Geoff
Is that the case. Okay, it.

25:58.52
Mike
Um, yep.

25:58.67
Henry
Um, yeah.

26:00.50
Geoff
And is there any talk of the fact that in some cases. Ah, how do I phrase this um these these nations don't want to give up this money like like like London is just a wash in. You know in russian pounds sterling sloshing through Kensington and everywhere has been for you know since the fall of the Soviet Union and and over and over again. It's like well we can't push it all out or we'll create a depression. Well not a depression but a recession and you'll you'll damage the London economy I mean it's pathetic but you'll.

26:19.20
Henry
Yeah.

26:28.57
Mike
Right.

26:36.70
Geoff
You know you used to be greatest country in the world and now you'll damage its economy if you take all this you know corrupt you know, corrupt Crime-ridden cash out of the nation does does this come into the discussion at all.

26:37.12
Mike
Exactly.

26:29.32
Mike
Um, oh oh for sure and this is and this is you know this has been the kind of the most interesting part of this you know is this is this kind of Humanitarian law versus international trade law.

27:04.20
Henry
Ah.

27:04.50
Mike
And which 1 takes precedent because so basically the idea is okay it it is easier to seize private. Um entity assets okay Abramovvich Oligarch whatever right? It is easier to seize.

27:19.74
Henry
Um, yeah.

27:22.60
Mike
To seize their assets because you just have legislation that says you're sanctioned that your assets in Canada were taking it right? it is it is near to impossible to seize state assets because state assets have what's called sovereign immunity.

27:23.89
Mike
So the idea is is that my country right? Ah michaelville and your country Henrynoppolis. You cannot seize my assets and I cannot seize yours unless we okay click let me qualify that through a judicial process right.

27:26.64
Henry
Her.

27:41.16
Henry
Aha.

28:01.74
Mike
We cannot do that I cannot do that to you. You cannot do that to me unless we are actually physically at war right? So Ukraine could take everything that's russian that's left in Ukraine. Okay, and so so the idea is is that is that you know so where but where it gets complicated.

28:03.59
Mike
Is with the state assets. It's easy to find them because they're not hidden right? I mean it's a state asset. You don't need to hide the central bank reserves of the russian federation in a numbered bank account Panama or at least you shouldn't right. There might be rethinking that now. Um, but.

28:08.94
Henry
Ah.

28:11.70
Henry
Obviously sure.

28:26.39
Henry
Um.

28:32.15
Henry
Yeah, okay.

28:40.37
Mike
But the but the idea is is that the private assets which are easier to to kind of just take are harder to take because they are subject to a judicial process where you know and they're hidden.

28:36.81
Mike
It's not it doesn't just you know it's not just a blank a checkbook that says Roman Abramovvich and his address in Chelsea it's it's like 8 1 2 3 Panama limited owned by 7 6 4 2 Malta incorporated. You know dot that dot that dot. But ah so you've got to prove the you know the Rcmp has to send all their.

28:49.49
Henry
Oh boy.

29:04.75
Henry
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:14.52
Mike
You know Cyber nerd officers out trying to track all this stuff.

29:17.11
Henry
So so Mike does that mean that essentially and you know you you were in Ottawa and you had a chance to share with them and really dig deep on the details of the plan that you have that the peace coalition has and and and they're rather impressed with that.

29:26.76
Mike
Yeah.

29:28.19
Mike
Um, yeah I mean that and the legal experts have been. Um, there's been legal experts all over the world. But specifically you know, um in in in this in this kind of project that we've been working on all of us together for the last you know six months um you know we've had legal experts from.

29:35.62
Henry
But now is it. It is it a question of letting all the legal experts throw their mind at it to figure out how this can be done because it has to be done. Oh good.

29:45.70
Mike
You know, kind of are are kind of stable of academics and you know people like this to incredible, incredibly notable, high level um people like Lloyd axworthy and Alan Rock iwin Kotler right? I mean he's a humanitarian lawyer and former I think justice minister um, you know and and folks like this have all weighed in and so you know the and they've weighed in and and generally speaking the you know the opinion basically is is that humanitarian law.

30:19.71
Henry
Um, yeah, sure.

30:23.41
Henry
Right.

30:38.13
Henry
Um, yeah, sure.

30:38.81
Mike
Overrules trade law as it should and that there are ways around sovereign immunity. Yeah exactly this is it.

30:45.49
Henry
So it's a question of of of detailing those writing them down and and and executing on it because this world needs to to rebuild Ukraine and Russia must pay.

30:58.65
Mike
Absolutely and so I mean I think just in in terms of you know, um in terms of like kind of segues here for episodes Henry because I know you're we're probably approaching the end of an episode here. Um, you know there, there's 2 ways that this that this discussion goes one is is.

31:00.34
Mike
Because I think it's I mean I I I would hope people are interested. Um, one is all of the incredible fascinating people and mechanics and effort behind. You know this issue of identifying a solution to.

31:10.66
Henry
Sure.

31:36.49
Mike
Funding the rebuilding of Ukraine and identifying a solution to move these assets the amount of people the amount of effort that's being done is incredible and it's and it's exhilarating. But then there's also this whole thing of of Canada's position in this.

31:43.94
Henry
Yeah.

31:54.74
Mike
And Canada's position in Ukraine because there's a very special connection and like I literally these and I was telling I just mentioned earlier guys as I was talking to people about this Maria Ruslan the plane coming back.

31:49.44
Mike
Like 2 of these folks that I was talking to when they were talking about how they'd you know seen the clip of the plane. Ah, you know the announcements and that trudeau is in town suddenly 2 of these people actually started choking up when they were talking about I'm serious and they're like it's very special canada.

31:58.68
Henry
There is.

32:17.89
Henry
Is that right.

32:25.61
Mike
And Ukraine right? And and this whole you know, kind of goat rodeo of this trip to Ottawa. It was incredible Henry. So maybe yeah, we we we kind of.

32:28.73
Henry
Ah.

32:37.64
Mike
You know I don't know what do you want? We can tee it up here and and and go to the next episode or something like that. But I think that there's some really fascinating stuff going on and I'm really excited to share it with everybody.

32:45.89
Henry
Well absolutely Michael thank you for ah taking half an hour with us to give us well to explain why you were in Ottawa and that's a coup in itself to be ah recognized to be summoned to come on over and let's let's look this through because they they obviously have a number of things on their mind and.

33:01.40
Mike
So.

33:03.63
Henry
And and it is certainly to benefit ukraine and we certainly ah hope the peace coalition is very very much deeply involved. So again, Thank you and um, what we'll do is we'll we'll we'll we'll record another episode with more details.

33:17.54
Mike
Thank you Henry! Thank you gentlemen.

33:17.65
Geoff
Yeah, we'll pay cut up again soon. Thanks Mike.